Lab notes, precursor purity

Topic created by Dr. Wang
on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 10:28

Dr. Wang said on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 10:28...

For those following, I have hydrolyzed a new batch of my banana oil.

My previous batch had a boiling point depressed by almost 20c, indicating a substantial amount of contamination, probably amyl acetate. It also had a good deal of sodium acetate impurity clinging to the bottle walls.

And yet, it was a top performer. The product just had a short lifespan at its peak intensity.

The new batch I hydrolyzed with NaOH was dried thoroughly and fractionated with a Vigreaux column and had the correct boiling point. It was the first batch which didn't rock. It was about the same as the 3-methylbutyl alcohol I've purchased directly from 3 different sources.

For me, it either works *Very* *Very* well, or it tends to cause near instant, ahem, flaccidity, for about 5 minutes until you can recover.

I'm going to have to try to hydrolyze another batch of the acetate and keep it crude, like all previous others, and see how it works.

However, I just received a batch of 3-methylbutanol from a Polish supplier on ebay. I whipped up a batch tonight and it performed near exactly as my original banana oil alcohol. This is very promising, as it means a quality supply of new precursor. My existing supply is finite, and every other supplier I've tried has been a disappointment. I will eventually have to get GCMS done on some samples to understand what's going on.

As to the lifespan- of my previous batch of precursor I had 4ml left in the bottle last month. I made it into a small batch of product and completely covered it in freshly baked molecular sieves, and it actually kept its potency until it was almost completely evaporated, almost 2 weeks. I've previously tried everything under the sun to dry it, and nothing seemed to prolong this initial high potency for longer than 4 days. Maybe I just wasn't using enough? A side note, the sieves also help agitate and vaporize the liquid if you give it a rattle in between hits.

"Yet man is born unto trouble as surely as sparks fly upward from a fire" Job 5:7
"You don’t have to look for trouble; it knows where you live."
I have been completely preoccupied lately. But OMG, wow.
I put up a personal ad for fun and attracted a relationship scammer from another country. I've spent the last month shoveling money at him- emptying my bank account, and I think I'm going to marry him the first chance I get...

Guttrunks said on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 18:35...

Congratulations on your impending nuptials, Sir! Your spouse is from where precisely? From our previous indelicacy's I shall assume the gender to male.

Ut amaris, amabilis esto!

Dr. Wang said on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 19:17...

Thank you for the kind words Guttrunks, it's more than I deserve.
Somewhere near the Ivory Coast. There were actually 2 scammers, possibly the same person, but one never got around to laying his trap. (I haven't yet clarified, as I've been too busy hanging out at Western Union...) But I'm just so damned charming, I reached through and managed to pluck a gorgeous gemstone from the grit.
And he's almost 7 feet tall, so that dream of stretching to my tiptoes might actually come true...
It's a long story, which I'm sure no one is interested in. But I may incorporate some details in my writeup.

Amabilis esto! I like that.

Guttrunks said on Sat, 19 Apr 2025 at 20:30...

I believe you have an unnatural lust for giants, Sir! This is how these African mountebanks ensnared you. The condition is known by psychologists as Macrophilia. May I inquire as to the amount that you forwarded to these colossal miscreants, for personal reasons: are these gentlemen twins by any chance?

Dr. Wang said on Sun, 20 Apr 2025 at 01:51...

You're a regular Word of the Day calendar, Guttrunks!

Yes, I suspected there was some kind of Voodoo or other dark art at play. Now I'm just a zombie with a debit card. My usual preference is for the dainty ones, but this boy and his dreadlocks is so freaking gorgeous, I don't care if I have to stand on a stack of phone books to do things to him.

He has the most stunning Grey-blue eyes, and the face of a Namibian bushman- the prettiest of African phenotypes.

He's even prettier wet...

Guttrunks said on Sun, 20 Apr 2025 at 18:39...

I confess! I too am an admirer of dreadlocks.

prettier wet...indeed, Sir! so many things are more beautiful once showered, now, let us ponder on that possibility: a 7foot tall Voodoo Oungan showering our silly pink flesh, drums beating, from his mighty ebony staff. I admit you have titillated my senses! We are but 2 unworthy suppliants, kneeling in the dry hot dirt, begging refreshment, mouths open in hope and awe.

The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless longing for some solitary company
I know that I must do what's right
Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti

Dr. Wang said on Mon, 21 Apr 2025 at 04:54...

He is Ewe in fact, but he disavows voodoo.

You can really cast it in sharp relief. He's going to be the one doing the kneeling though... But, approaching my silver years, I tire of doing all the heavy lifting myself. I only pray that as a bottom, he's not insatiable, and I hope to elicit a more flexible side to his nature.

I know certain races bear stereotypes grounded in reality, but in my personal experience, albeit limited, I've yet to find an ebony staff which lives up to all the hype. He's no slouch, but I was relieved to find out he's not, well... let's just say I've seen the documentary "Zoo" and it holds no appeal.

But I'm getting ahead of myself. I still have to pay for his mother's cancer treatment, and the poor lad was just evicted by a callous, stone-hearted landlord! Tossed right out onto the street!

Tsarina said on Mon, 21 Apr 2025 at 17:05...

Is there another thread to give this one context?

Are you talking about hydrolizing the impurities in amyl alcohol and removing them by distillation or filtration?

Guttrunks said on Mon, 21 Apr 2025 at 19:46...

I fear this was my fault, Alexandra. Mea culpa! I will exit this thread (I have some knitting to do) and you are free to debate the merits, or otherwise, of hydrolysis...

Water, water, everywhere, And all the bawds did shrink

Anonymous said on Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 01:40...

Gentlemen I agree with you I also love the dreadlocks and the Black Godz that wear them we are so lucky to be able to kneel in front of them so they understand our thoughts

Dr. Wang said on Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 03:41...

Hello Tsarina, Thank you for bringing it up, I should start leaving links to add context for those just popping in.

In this case I'm referring to hydrolyzing an amyl acetate into amyl alcohol with sodium hydroxide, as the acetate is sometimes cheaper or more readily available in some locations. I do plan on going deeper into purification of the alcohols in the future though. If you have anything you'd like to contribute, please feel welcome!

https://poppersguide.com/forum/14220
You can find more with a simple keyword search, but if there's something specific you're interested in I'd be happy to point you in the right direction.
------------------------------
Guttrunks- I love knitting! Straight, circular, backward, forward... Using a machine...
But the singular pursuit of one perfect chemical has me by the short hairs now.

Yes, Anon. Agreed.
Gee, it just occurred to me, I'd better scrub all identifying info from my twitter account before my grey-eyed ebony god stumbles on my trove of racist memes and Hitler glorification.
Actually, I was shocked by how simpatico our politics are. Shocked enough to raise suspicions. Just one of the many things which has me so enthralled.

Tsarina said on Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 14:14...

I was getting fake poppers from those shitty ass euro sites, there is one that only sells "amyl" or "pentyl" and it sucks ass and it is like amyl alcohol that never got reacted. When you make your good shit, how hard does it hit? Are you sniffing out of the bottle or poisining yourself by pouring it on a sock or putting it in a bottle to get a minute effect?

Dr. Wang said on Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 18:14...

Tsarina, You have to consider my bias, and the fact that I haven't actually used a commercial product yet, but I've made nitrites from 8+ different alcohols, most of which are used in commercial products, and there's only one which I care to use (the original amyl- 3-methylbutyl). The ones which don't measure up are comparable to what I've read of many others experiences- I've never read anyone who says they're fully satisfied with what they have access to *right now*.

Having said that, the one that works hits *hard*.

Warning: graphic language, NSFW ha ha ha ;-)
Disclaimer: I'm not actually a medical doctor, and the following should not be construed as medical advice...

I edge for 2 hours. Gooning, I think, in the kids' vernacular... After the first hour, I take the occasional hit, 2 or 3 in total. When I get close I bring up one of my favorite videos and take a hit or two just to crank it up- to heighten everything in preparation. Finally, when I'm ready, I put on one video I use every time, with music and my favorite clips, and just binge on 3-4 hits in a row as it begins- and it sends me into outer space every time, like mortar round, where I reach full altitude and just... explode... It's the most intense thing I've ever felt, and it turns me into an animal. It's tension and electricity and chaos, and it lasts several minutes. After initial physical climax I take a couple more hits, and it prolongs the whole body climax experience for several more minutes, to the point where I don't want to stop, even when it becomes painful, and I just keep going until my body won't have anymore and stops responding to the amyl and my heart and breathing settles down, then I just sort of collapse and really enjoy listening to music for about an hour. I haven't yet used with another person, but it's certainly not an experience I can compare to all the boring sex I've had in the past. I've only ever actually bottomed twice, long ago, but the experience has made me crave bottoming like you can't believe.

Last time, after nearly two hours, it was about 5 minutes after one of my 'preliminary' hits, and I was still so, just engorged and throbbing and sensitive, that I accidentally came just hearing the tremulous breathing in one of my favorite videos. I was like "no no no no!"- that's happened a few times. If I can shut everything off and blank my mind in time I can avert this type of disaster. But I can also usually salvage the situation by relaxing for a few minutes and starting over, and still have the ending be as intense. It's not really a disaster because it's still really good, but I'm not mentally in the place where I want to be yet when that happens.
I have a song that just has such strong synergy with it, I've accumulated 3 subwoofers in my room since, to feel every thump and boom... Porn just makes me sad, I'm an ASMR person.
I wrote a more detailed post if you're interested- https://poppersguide.com/forum/15643
They say never go full retard. Whoever said that must be retarded. I say, always go full retard, every time.

With any of the other products, it's mediocre at best, but taking hits will usually just make me impotent, especially after two hours, and if I'm tired. This just never happens with a good batch of 3-methylbutyl amyl, it only ever gets more intense.

I know I'm biased, and so far have only a sample size of 1. But when my bottle of precursor is good, it never disappoints. Last bottle made over a year's supply with no degradation.

Dr. Wang said on Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 18:17...

Oh yeah, sniffing right out of the bottle. When I was new I would prolong a bottle that was mellowing by soaking it on a cotton ball and putting it into a piece of glassware to breathe through, but I eventually just started making smaller batches and always using them fresh. The lifespan at this strength is an issue for me. I badly need input fro others on this, but I feel like my only option is to ask a bath house to let me set up camp and start a focus group, and I'm not sure how that conversation would play out.

Tsarina said on Tue, 22 Apr 2025 at 20:58...

Where are you getting the nitrite salt? Refining it on your own?

Dr. Wang said on Wed, 23 Apr 2025 at 00:21...

I stocked up on Pro-Cure 2lb bait cure while it was still widely available at sporting goods stores.
LazBama was able to find some somewhere last month, He didn't mention where, but some chains still had stock in some of there stores last time I checked.

Tsarina said on Wed, 23 Apr 2025 at 18:24...

What acid, what temperatures, time frame, quantity, etc. etc. are you doing? Like one mole over an hour at 0 C? Dropping sulfuric acid into tert butyl with 40% NaNO2, etc?

Been trying this for a long time and my product is as shitty as the bullshit on the market. Joe Miller might have died in 2010 but you could still get something that worked until 2014 or so. I used to get some bottles from some stores intentionally with aromatics as room odorizers (easy to synthesize fruit or flower smells) and other bottles that had very little smells. The common denominator was they would drop your blood pressure for a few minutes and getting fucked lightly in the ass was a more intense experience than a horny af chick riding a sybian cranked 2/3 up-full speed can just be numbing to the girls-with a g spot attachment. That is saying something.

Dr. Wang said on Thu, 24 Apr 2025 at 00:22...

lol
I make 7g batches weekly because of the short lifespan of the most high intensity fraction. I use sulfuric acid. However, back when I was making 30ml batches and using hydrochloric acid, it was just as intense.

I use a solid block of ice with a beaker-sized hole, and a magnetic stir plate. A regular ice bath works, so does adding bits of crushed ice to the reaction mixture.

For me, it all comes down to the right alcohol, which, at some point, I will have to take to a university to get analyzed.

So, I take a 100ml beaker, add a sprocket/star shaped stir bar, and weigh in 7g 3-methylbutyl alcohol and 5g sodium nitrite, and place it into the ice bath. I weigh 4g 90% sulfuric acid, and dilute it with an equal volume of ice chips, which melt instantly and produce a room temp acid mixture. The shape of this stir bar keeps the bottom scraped, and whips it like a blender even at low RPM.

(This is a stoichiometrically correct amount of salt and acid for the alcohol, and people often recommend using an excess to drive the reaction to completion, but I'm certain it's actually already an excess of what's needed due to the kinetics of this esterification reaction, especially at low temp and low water conditions, and possible HONO recycling. I've used excess and it's made no difference)

I turn on stirring and place the acid into a tiny addition funnel, but adding dropwise with a pipette and manual stirring will work. I add the acid at a rate of about one drop per second. If brown color appears, I'll add tiny portions of crushed ice, and it calms it back down right away. Sometimes I may have to slow down the acid addition if cooling is insufficient. The mixture will sometimes turn bluish from the nitrous acid. The alcohol turns yellow about 1/3 of the way in. The salt will turn into a greasy/gelatinous slush with the low water conditions here, so I will knock the gel down into the mixture for thorough mixing. This is something I would definitely do if using a regular oval stir bar.

Once acid addition is complete, I carefully pour the alcohol off of the gelled salt mixture into a separate beaker. If the gel is too thick, it will hold on to a substantial amount of your product, and adding some water and stirring will release it. I give it a sniff to see if it has any sharp, acidic odor to it, and if so, I'll wash with a few ml of sodium bicarbonate solution. I then pipette out the aqueous portion, dry with a small amount of sodium sulfate, then decant into a vial containing freshly baked molecular sieves, so that the liquid level just exceeds the level of the sieves. I immediately put the vial on ice for storage.

I used to run the reaction directly in the freezer- stir plate and everything, so that the mixture took on a blue hue throughout, but found it unnecessary. I've also tried dry ice, which produces a striking deep blue reaction mixture, but this introduces its own set of complications. I've also had reactions get warm and runaway and sizzle with clouds of nitrogen dioxide, but still produce very good product.

I switched to H2SO4 simply because I was low on HCL, and found the omission of water to be a convenient side effect. While I believe a thoroughly dry product is the key to longevity, you can use HCL, add water to the reaction, and use a sep funnel, and still get a good product.

Again, in my experience, it all comes down to the right precursor. Aside from identifying what makes some batches of 3-methylbutanol so good, my main issue is product lifespan.

I'll even take old, good product over fresh, bad product, I just have to put it on cotton to produce more vapors, and the effect isn't as strong. All other alcohols cause dilation, racing heart, etc., but they don't have pro-sexual effects for me, they literally have anti-sexual effects.

Dr. Wang said on Thu, 24 Apr 2025 at 00:29...

"Once acid addition is complete, I carefully pour the alcohol off of the gelled salt mixture into a separate beaker."
-correction-
...I carefully pour the *product* off of the gelled salt mixture into a separate beaker.
...I then pipette out the aqueous/bicarbonate portion

Tsarina said on Thu, 24 Apr 2025 at 00:38...

O thank you kind sirrah

Dr. Wang said on Thu, 24 Apr 2025 at 01:27...

You're quite welcome. I think your bench skills and recipe are probably fine, even if not optimal. Still, let me know if anything was of help- if you get a more satisfactory product.

I guess I've overlooked praise for commercial products-
"I've never read anyone who says they're fully satisfied with what they have access to *right now*"
I see some people actually are happy and recommending things like Jungle Juice and Pig Sweat. I guess I will have to give them a try for comparison.

The 3-Methyl-1-butanol I got from Syntlab on eBay was by far the best among different suppliers I've tried, it's listed as 'C5H12O Isoamyl Alcohol'. It's the only one which is in league with the banana oil I've had so much success with. Interestingly, customs/FDA took an interest in my shipment, and caused quite a delay while they opened it up for inspection. That's never happened to me before.

Here's some calculators. My stoich is a hair off, but as I said, I still believe it's an excess, and I've gotten away with using as little as 7+4+3

H2SO4
https://www.webqc.org/balanced-equation-C5H12O+NaNO2+H2SO4=C5H11NO2+Na2SO4+H2O

HCL
https://www.webqc.org/balance.php?reaction=C5H12O%2BNaNO2%2BHCl%3DC5H11NO2%2BNaCl%2BH2O

Tsarina said on Sat, 26 Apr 2025 at 00:49...

Were you getting your reagent from overseas or something? That is the only time I have had things opened.